Part of being a chiropractic student is that you get to be a chiropractic patient while you’re learning the trade. This is a great example of pseudo-medicine trying to infiltrate the veterinary profession. Should this be cause for concern or normal? The truly whacked chiroquackers can’t argue cogently….the “reformers” understand how dominos work and seem to refuse to EVER define “chiroquackery” so as any reasonable or erudite observer could actually discuss it with them. As I suspected, a chiropractic meatball , JB…Grow-up, DC Certainly, you believe what you think, say, and do professionally is medically worthy so my simple and straightforward questions to you about what you actually do for a patient as a chiropractor are relevant to any critique of “chiropractic” and chiropractors to which you might object. You said “Choosing a chiropractor to diagnose and manage any given complaint is NOT a good idea.” If that’s the case, no guidelines for choosing a chiro (other than “not to select one at all”) are necessary. Optical Coherence Tomography (OCT) demonstrated the pre-retinal location of the haemorrhage. I can’t say with confidence that one thing had to do with another … but hey. There’s a two-drink minimum. Does Chiropractic Treatment Really Work? Notably, since the inception of the profession in 1895, not a single aspect of anything that is UNIQUE to “chiropractic” has ever been validated –even a little bit. I was hoping you would quote this paper. They don’t. “…which is the only way to set such a diagnosis.”. I completely disagree with that. AND to do it “correctly”…vs just goin’ a whackin’ wherever it hurts? OTOH, I also say, until these same DCs who CAN find their way out of a chiropractic paper bag take full responsibility for the crap that continues to pass for viable medicine and which surrounds them everywhere in the Chiropractic Byzantium, then they will continue to be embarrassed by their Subluxationist colleagues and suffer the consequences of being identified as “one of them.”. i went for an adjustment at the chiropractors,after he cracked me my ears started ringing loud and its been 3 weeks know and there still ringing. Hence my argument of “damage control” and “making the best of a bad deal.” My SOME GUIDELINES don’t represent a strategy for how chiropractors and all their legislative shenanigans and empty medicine COULD infiltrate a healthcare system as you represent. This is due to your body adjusting to the ne… I suggest that you read it in ITS entirety . The surrounding students and class were asking me if I was OK because, apparently, I just lay there for I don’t know for how long, non-responsive. I sought medical advice and learned that I had a retinal tear and was advised that the force of the manipulation would have caused it and that, in fact, this is certainly a situation that my Eye Doctor had seen before following a Chiropractic neck manipulation. This site is for educational purposes only; no information is intended or implied to be a substitute for professional medical advice. In the hands of experienced chiropractors, cervical manipulation usually renders beneficial results with few adverse side effects. I am also very, very angry that this happened at all. 9. Chiroquackers become oblivious to the milieu of malarkey to which they exist. The profession’s relentless march of chiropractic imbecility has successfully oozed its Chiropractic oobleck and medical simulacrum through any and all legislative cracks. In a chiropractic jungle, this is no small thing. I also had two black spots in my vision after this manipulation which have NOT resolved. Wished I was near there. A misaligned Atlas (Toggle-Recoil Technic) and a Base-Posterior Sacrum (Gonstead Technic) were the predicted Chiropractic Subluxations they diagnosed. And, since I authored SOME GUIDELINES FOR CHOOSING A CHIROPRACTOR, I get to tell you this , Perhaps, you didn’t have a chance to read and absorb what I wrote to another chiropractor who was not as reflexively defensive as you appear to be, but who sought to clarify her question about this particular AVOID/SEEK complement that’s included in my SOME GUIDELINES to address the irresponsible use of ionizing radiation by Subluxationist chiropractors. DC wrote: “Actually, what Bogduk wrote is that spinal manipulation might reduce neck pain but it doesn’t eradicate neck pain.”, Yes, he did say that, before continuing with: “it is not more effective than other interventions, which do not require the same degree of allegedly necessary training and skill, which do not carry the same risks of morbidity, and which the patients can do for themselves, if and once properly instructed.”, Ref. At some point, I indicated that I thought I was OK, rose from the table, finished the class and left school to go home. I don’t understand “this” because what I wrote and continue to write certainly IS “the issue.” It’s you who disagrees with what I’ve written. Damage occurring as a result of treating with an empty medical intervention only adds insult to this primary injury, which is the application of an arbitrary and fictitious medicine to manage bona fide medical diagnoses. There was another link in which you discussed how to choose a chiropractor. We suggest that you do not end your chiropractic if you get a headache after … Nevertheless, if a headache occurs, it can be very concerning. It’s much like suggesting one “meditate”, “stretch” or “pray” to effect an outcome. jm: The only way your guidelines make sense is if, by “bad idea”, what you really mean is “specific types of chiropractic treatments have benefits that outweigh the risks”. The alleged correlation more likely had to do with patients seeking chiropractic treatment of already-existing VBA symptoms (headache and neck pain) before the stroke took place. Defended chiropractors who argue complete safety without telling about all the potential damage they can do are simply FOS. Maybe you should look up what that is. If a patient presents, without having seen a chiro and reports no heavy lifting, forceful coughing, etc on their history…how do explain that away? Chiropractic care helps to maintain a healthy nervous system, which controls and coordinates every function of the body, including vision. The twitch lasts for more than 1 week; Your eyelid closes completely; Spasms involve other facial muscles; You see redness, swelling, or discharge from an eye; Your upper eyelid droops At Choice Chiropractic in Pittsburgh, we use preventative treatments to help patients maintain healthy bodies. IOW, how do you know what needs “adjusting?” Do you “check the legs,” palpate the spine, do you visualize “high shoulders” and “head tilt?” Do you take x-rays routinely? For example, taking joints beyond their physiologic range of motion may sound more ominous and dangerous than it really is. Stretching, massaging and adjusting of these structures inevitably causes a degree of discomfort. In fact, insurance companies pay for this service, even though I’m sure they’d be dismayed to hear this. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. DC wrote: “my response was in regards to what Kinney wrote…which misrepresented what Bogduk wrote.”, The title of Bogduk’s article is ‘Spinal manipulation for neck pain does not work’. I've always had the popping noise on my left joint. Honestly, you could (and should) have answered your own question with regards “probably” had you noticed or appreciated the organization of my SOME GUIDELINES into five AVOID/SEEK pairs — one for each major issue concerning chiropractic practice. Your website is wonderful. SEEK a chiropractor who uses a medical facility for x-rays and orders them to rule out fracture and/or pathology as indicated by the case history and medical (not chiropractic) exam. To attribute this type of incident only to chiropractors negates that this could have happened to a patient receiving care from any of the above five professions. Chiropractic adjustments during pregnancy? And there it is…”…there is no reason to see a chiro…”. Newbie and oldie DCs who intend to make a living commensurate with their (faux) doctor status can’t just sell bone cracking for 18 mins of “relief”….or a stroke…they gotta sell a concept: wellness through spinal alignment and improved spinal function. They have no separate treatment rooms. IL, Believe me, I’ve heard all the rationalizations. If there are some, Edzard should write a post. 10. Do me a favor and reread the AVOID/SEEK pair related to x-ray use by chiropractors and then tell me why I included “probably” as an AVOID. r/Chiropractic: This subreddit is for sharing and discussing the good and the bad, including news, about chiropractic care. You may disagree, but damage control might be the best anyone who knows better can do at this point. If you think something is a “bad idea”, Alan’s guideline would be the best you could do. She is still seeing positive and lasting results two years later. Perhaps you might read his books and learn some real facts. In the course of being treated by a doctor of chiropractic for spinal derangement or subluxations, certain reactions may be experienced by the patient receiving the chiropractic adjustment. “Edzard Ernst, an expert in alternative medicine, said chiropractic treatments were too dangerous and not sufficiently effective to be recommended for any condition.” Reactions following a chiropractic adjustment vary greatly from person to person. Being a diabetic and thus very sensitive to issues involving my eye and retina, I immediately went to see my retina specialist. ALL interventions have to be judged by the same standard: fo they generate more good than harm. In the U.S., at least, THAT horse left the barn long ago. The typical person seeking a chiropractor for a low back complaint, let’s say, has literally no idea about any of this chiropractic technique jungle, or that they may be exposed unnecessarily to ionizing radiation and cancer because the doctor of chiropractic depends on one of these empty clinical abstractions euphemistically called “technique.” The “and probably any chiropractor…” is added, not only to insure consumer protection from these named Subluxationists I’ve listed, but also to protect them from those chiropractors who would take films to cover the chiropractor’s butt (you hear this quite a bit) or any of those chiropractors who simply “want to see what’s going-on” … because they’re chiropractically curious and as if they COULD “see.” Like the technique films themselves, these latter, er, “rationales” for using x-ray are for the doctor, not the patient. Chiropractors don’t take criticism very well. 4. The only way your guidelines make sense is if, by “bad idea”, what you really mean is “specific types of chiropractic treatments have benefits that outweigh the risks”. Toggle-recoil (one of three “Techniques” featured on the segment and demonstrated by Dr. Browning) and NUCCA are two name-brand “upper cervical techniques” that “shoot [their x-rays] first” and ask questions later. I’ve copied it below so that you can read it now. Of course, you don’t ever have to say anything about anything, never mind about “chiropractic.” But, I do think it would be useful for those reading your posts here to know more about where you’re coming from … “chiropractically,” that is. In fact, the Chiropractor told me to sit still for a minute or two as he peered into my face because he said I looked really pale and then told me “how well I had done and that the neck had adjusted beautifully” and to come back in a week for a follow-up session. Notably, the particular patient isn’t part of the diagnostic equation, since the biomedically arbitrary diagnostic/treatment algorithm used in a particular subluxation-based practice can be repeated on every patient independent of their entering complaint –whether it be vomiting, eye pain, headache, or itchy feet. Spinal adjustments to correct misalignments in the vertebrae. it’s a case report! There is NO CHANCE in the world that I would EVER visit a Chiropractor again – and I am extremely lucky that I sought medical advice so the tear was picked up on. Well, in case you hadn’t noticed, you’re WAY too late. ( I don’t! @Toodles: I am intimately and experientially aware of what “they” do in practice having “lived it” for a decade. But, you’ve said nothing as I’ve requested about what (exactly) your objections are. Wood choice for the stick. I suspect it will be much more difficult than you think to find a chiropractor if you adhere to these guidelines… but, that is exactly what I suggest you do. I have no history of previous retinal tears & are in excellent health having just passed a physical examination with flying colours just prior to the Chiropractor visit. Chiropractic care works to realign the bones and muscles in the body. Upper Cervical Chiropractic Care for a 25-year-old Woman With Myoclonic Seizures 3) Seek a chiropractor who uses a medical facility for x-rays and orders them to rule out fracture and/or pathology as indicated by the case history and medical (not chiropractic) exam. 9. You: here’s how you could do it. But, who’s counting. 1. . About 5 weeks ago, I visited a Chiropractor – one who had been practising for 30 years and came recommended to me – because I had a headache and a really stiff neck. Of course, cracking a neck CAN help and it may NOT cause a stroke. 1) Avoid a chiropractor who attributes any of your problems to Vertebral Subluxation and sells the Adjustment as the solution to your complaint. I have little doubt the chiropractic joke has gone too far. In fact, I would argue they constitute malpractice. sorry, I must have lost the link in my text but have now re-installed it, “…but this case demonstrates that it can also lead to multiple preretinal hemorrhages.”, Should have WRITTEN, DC … should have “written.”, More to the point, no doubt you tell patients who present with neck pain, “I’m going to adjust your neck and it may NOT help” and add that “It CAN cause a stroke.”. 7. jm: If you really believe “Choosing a chiropractor to diagnose and manage any given complaint is NOT a good idea”, why in the world would have guidelines for choosing one? Remember the credulity of the chiropractic patient, too. Advanced Spine & Posture provides invaluable assistance … 12. they advise maintenance care Rushes in late to your appointment still wearing his Burger King uniform. © Some chiropractors use the dentist’s argument of “regular check-ups.” No one notices that there really IS such a thing as plaque and dental caries. This is a complicated business and not so easily teased from the chiropractic woodwork. Yet, this seems to be where you’ve chosen to dig-in your heels even though “You: here’s how you could do it” has nothing to do with my SOME GUIDELINES or anything I’ve ever said about what chiropractors think, say, and do. The second AVOID/SEEK complement references the Chiropractic Technique Spectacle. What do you think caused them, if not what the chiropractor did? Since you wrote “probably” it indicates that you acknowledge there are allowable deviations to this “guideline”. Eye doctor did many tests and my left eye is dry and so I’m taking fish oil. At least, this is the situation in the U.S. and you’d have to actually look for one who corrects “Spinal Lesions” or who does Cranial “work,” or Bloodless Surgery. This can lead to all sorts of problems, sometimes even death. Again, what UNIQUELY defines and characterizes “chiropractic” is the Subluxation and “Thuh” Adjustment. She recommended botox for the eyelid to stop the twitching. Or, your guideline could be “Don’t do it”. Choosing a chiropractor to diagnose and manage any given complaint is NOT a good idea. 10. Mix this with The Chiropractic Rumor and an understandable ignorance of “chiropractic” and chiropractic culture and the risk of a perfect chiropractic storm is nearly assured. When it’s invoked as a diagnosis, it makes many doctors of “chiropractic” (DCs) appear to be spinal priests trained to recognize and exorcise Spinal Demons. It’s history IS it’s future. That said, your posts here serve to demonstrate, if not validate, my typical criticisms of “chiropractic” and chiropractors, especially those I’ve made about the compensatory and defended chiropractor. There are good reasons for taking x-rays, to be sure, and ALL of them are medical. These may range from a great sense of exhilaration immediately following the adjustment, to a feeling of aching and soreness. (C-is for Chiropractic….they made up a fake-doctor-degree and a fake professor-degree). Things like spinal manipulation, exercise, rehab, ergonomics, lifestyle advice. From your posts to this list including your initial response to my SOME GUIDELINES offering “10 ways to spot a scam chiropractor” and now, looking for wiggle room here on the issue of x-ray use by chiropractors, I’m not surprised you didn’t notice how little “oxygen” my GUIDELINES provide for a “dyspneic” chiropractor. I just describe chiropractic things and chiropractors as I see them. 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